what we need to do is to avoid the fiscal cliff, have a down payments of both spending reductions and effective tax rate increases geared towards the well off. all right? we need to defer most of the major spending reductions and tax rate increases until a date later than 2013. couple that with a deferral of the debt ceiling limit to the same date so that we can achieve a grand bargain in 2013, which will be budget control, comprehensive tax reform, social insurance reforms, those types of things. we have to be realistic about what can be achieved before the end of the year and we have to build to achieving a grand bargain in 2013. >> steve, last year, we know how close everyone got and we also know that the president commission has been involved in all those people to come to a fix for our long-term problems. now, they came up with 28% as a tax rate. they came up with three to one in terms of spending cuts. the president is nowhere near embracing that at this point. we're so far from that at this point that it seems like the opportunity was mittsed last year. >> right now, the presid